Comments on: Content Extraction

By: Adrian

Adrian — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 09:38:07 +0000

You need a copywriter. Or rather, your customers do. There’s a whole industry dedicated to writing content, I think perhaps we don’t use them enough.I have a client that is a copywriter, amongst other things, and we built his site on Drupal: watchwords.co.uk maybe you should drop him a mail :)

By: Ben

Ben — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 10:40:18 +0000

You are right, getting content from clients is the hardest part of the job. Even simple product images etc are a nightmare to get hold of! Some clients are on the ball and deliver straight away but most of the time like you say….pulling teeth!

By: Chris

Chris — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 11:16:19 +0000

Content Management.

By: Phil Parr

Phil Parr — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:14:11 +0000

First off - I love to see the article you share with your clients to help them create their own content.For those designers/developers with the skills to do so, Copywriting could be another revenue source. "$x to design/develop your site, $x to write your content."Perhaps the article you wrote could be re-purposed into a "survey" - a form/poll designed to be filled out by your client and their staff that would get their own creative juices simmering. Ask them to fill out things like "List 5 types of visitors that come to your site. What are the top 5 things they are looking for on your site? etc." While this may not provide your content, it would help you zero in on the essentials, and if distributed amongst the key contact people, it could also identify differences in opinion early on within the client’s environment - rather than later on, which could result in large design/content changes late in the project.

By: Christine

Christine — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 14:28:44 +0000

I feel your pain! I’ve been in the same situation many many times.With some projects, when I think that they aren’t serious, I don’t even write a proposal until they have some content written down. More often than not, I bring a copywriter in the equation. The woman I work with is brilliant. She’s interviews the client, creates the site map and then the whole content. Regardless of her ability, she still needs help from the client. They need to understand that it’s their business and they are the expert. No one can explain their services and the nature of their business like they do. If they can’t or aren’t willing to provide any content, then sometime it’s best to not take the job at all.

By: Christian Watson

Christian Watson — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:31:54 +0000

I agree with the need to involve a professional writer. It’s impossible to get content from the client in a timely manner and then when you do, it’s often rubbish.The other challenge is SEO - your content needs to be written appropriately from this perspective as well. I find that it’s helpful to have this as the starting point - get the client to talk about concepts and themes that are central to their site, which can then help to inform the content.Even in the non-freelance world, and with copywriters available as a resource, developing good content within a reasonable timeframe is hard work.

By: Amber Yount

Amber Yount — Wed, 27 Jun 2007 20:16:46 +0000

This is always frustrating, especially when you have to deal with the whole committee crap and it takes a year to finish a teeny simple website.

By: NatalieMac

NatalieMac — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 01:07:26 +0000

My absolute favorite, though, are the clients who take a year to deliver a small amount of simple content and then expect their site to be done the next day.

By: Andrew Faulkner

Andrew Faulkner — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 08:03:43 +0000

Agreed, getting content from the client can be tricky.

Chris, you mentioned content management. I can't understand how this gets over the issue - the content is still needed before the launch of a site. Maybe I misunderstand you.

I see two routes: Professional copywriting is the first. If budget allows (why shouldn't it?) then this is optimal in my view. The second is a team effort between the client and the web designer. This may not be great depending on the skill of both parties but it can work. Any tips on how this relationship could be improved would be appreciated. I'd love to know your ideas too.

By: Anders

Anders — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 13:09:58 +0000

Spot on! My advise for these companies is to hire a copy writer who knows how to write for the web, not just a regular one.

By: Ted Goas

Ted Goas — Thu, 28 Jun 2007 15:19:36 +0000

I agree with a few others in this thread: If not content is provided, having someone on your staff do it. Or take a shot at it yourself (You can write. I mean, you DID write this article!). If either is the case, build it into a contract and charge for it.

By: Ty

Ty — Fri, 29 Jun 2007 21:30:25 +0000

I’m with you Steve, we have a sales staff here. The duties sometimes fall to them, or a certain sales person. The results are needless to say "fluffy". How many sites fall flat on their face because content is king - the written word is the content - and tada, no written words.I’m just happy if they "feel something" regarding the graphics and website aesthetics, cause you know you are not going to get any good images either!!-[Friday miniRant]PS: I’ld love to see the article you’ve written up to prompt good copywriting from your clients then Steve, has it ever once worked though, lol. :)

By: Cristian

Cristian — Sat, 30 Jun 2007 22:40:26 +0000

Yup! You’re perfectly right. I had the same problem. Plus, more than that. After 2 months of waiting the content, I’ve finished the site pretty fast, like one week or so, but you see the site was finished in 2 months and one week. So, who’s fault was?! You would not believe it. MINE of course.

By: Neil Bradley

Neil Bradley — Sun, 01 Jul 2007 01:07:31 +0000

I feel your pain. I am a Web Designer in a Public Health Organisation in the UK and I have enough trouble getting content from the relevant departments to put on the website. We are gradually moving over to a new CMS, so those departments will have to publish the content themselves. But without knowing what they want on there in the first place - it is difficult to create some sort of structure.

By: adam

adam — Sun, 01 Jul 2007 02:38:54 +0000

Dude, I’ve been waiting on one client for 15 months now to get me his content…

By: Mike Birch

Mike Birch — Sun, 01 Jul 2007 09:52:38 +0000

I have found that if I require 50% of the cost of the website up front, that I’m much more likely to receive content in a timely fashion.

By: Andrew Faulkner

Andrew Faulkner — Sun, 01 Jul 2007 09:56:26 +0000

One more thing to add to this, the issue of who’s responsibility it is to provide the content should be set out right from the start, not as an afterthought.

By: stephen eighmey

stephen eighmey — Sun, 01 Jul 2007 15:11:53 +0000

by getting a signed contract before you start, and a deposit, and you state in the contract that no work can or will be done before the client provides "x", and the fact that they’ve given you some money already will definitely prompt them towards giving you at least some of what you’re asking for. "hey, here’s a check i wrote for $500, what’s that for?, oh yeah, my website…hey! i don’t have my website yet..oh yeah, i need to give this guy something…what does he need again?"i find that client education is a big part of my work. you’re the web designer, you know what the need is; generally, your clients do not. so not only do you need to explain what they need to understand about the process but you also need to give them a bottom line incentive to provide you with what you need ($$$). you might need to hire the services of a copywriter. there are many good articles about the need for good web copy, and it’s dead on true. i find myself writing copy quite a bit because i learn to understand the needs of my project as i work through it, and, i know the balance between writing copy that will not only give a site visitor what they need but also be good material for search engines to feed off of.your clients are busy, so make them understand that the process of putting together their website is just as important as ordering inventory or paying the rent on their 5th ave. store. they make time for that, i bet, so you need to educate them that they need to make time for you.

By: Chris

Chris — Mon, 02 Jul 2007 19:32:37 +0000

I’ve ran into this several times and had several different scenarios in which it could be remedied. As many have stated a copywriter is the best answer, but in my experience a copywriter still needs some client input to get started and in many instances if the client didn’t have time to put together even a small bit of content they aren’t going to be able to provide the copywriter any insight either. In my early freelance days this posed a big issue. I learned early on to get a retainer up front, but not receiveing content for months also caused issues in closing the project and receiving final payment. By now I’ve learned my lesson. I set expectations up front and establish a milestones sign-off. This milestones document also outlines payment portions assigned to particular milestones. This helps tremendously with cash-flow. Lastly, I set a penalty fee for long delays. Nothing too large, but it keeps the client somewhat in check if they know content is expected within x days and if they provide it beyond that time they pay an additional fee. This was recommended to me by someone else and while I was hesitant it has definitely worked out for the best.

By: Xavez

Xavez — Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:17:15 +0000

This is an incredibly common problem :). As said before: a good copywriter is worth a few hundred. It is, as a matter of fact, one of the only good solutions. You could always consider interviewing and writing it yourself. Then again: wiritng good copy takes up just as much of your time, as crafting a good design.

By: kahunaroad.com - Gadgets, programming, software reviews …. for the Big Kahuna in all of us! » Content Is the most important part of a website !

Tue, 03 Jul 2007 15:00:51 +0000

[…] is a very interesting article that highligts a problem that is extremely common for web designers. » Content Extraction » fadtastic - a multi-author web design trends journal Content ExtractionPosted by Steve Rose on June 27th, 2007. A web designer/builder, working in […]

By: Kolin

Kolin — Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:10:23 +0000

Is it possible to totally rewrite content which is already on the web? That would be much cheaper and easier…

By: Andrew Faulkner

Andrew Faulkner — Wed, 04 Jul 2007 17:02:23 +0000

Kolin, a lot of content already on the web is copyrighted. Taking this copy would be a breach of copyright. Even if you totally rewrote someones content, it probably would have been easier and cheaper to hire a copywriter. Plus, rewriting someons else’s content would not let you promote your company’s own ethics/USPs etc.

By: links for 2007-07-06 | giancarlo.dimassa.net

links for 2007-07-06 | giancarlo.dimassa.net — Fri, 06 Jul 2007 01:00:22 +0000

[…] » Content Extraction » fadtastic - a multi-author web design trends journal watchwords.co.uk (tags: content development freelancing webdesign webdev copywriting) […]

By: Mike

Mike — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 22:42:54 +0000

Yes, I agree that a copywriter is as important as a web developer, but: where to hire a good one? Copywriting is very important but it’s difficult for me to find a professional…

By: Aaron Pollock

Aaron Pollock — Sun, 08 Jul 2007 13:43:14 +0000

I ask clients at the start of a project whether they’d like us to write their content for them. That eliminates the problem. Those who want to write it themselves have done it before or have already begun, so they know what’s involved.Set a content deadline very early in the project and emphasise its importance. Clients will procrastinate unless you make it real and give them a list of material and a date by which it must be delivered to keep the project moving.Copywriting - if you can offer it - is another string in your bow and an opportunity for additional revenue. As well as speeding up your projects, its probably something your competitors don’t offer, and it’s definitely something that your clients both need and want.

By: Chris Brown

Chris Brown — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:42:33 +0000

I see this with many of our clients. We ask them up front if they can dedicate one of "their people" to be responsible for getting the raw content together and it seems to help a some if they do.

By: Andrew Faulkner

Andrew Faulkner — Mon, 09 Jul 2007 19:35:05 +0000

Chris, that's a great idea. It rides on luck though a tad, I guess. If a bad member of their people gets nominated then all hell could break loose.

Great idea when it works though.

By: Quakeulf

Quakeulf — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:34:58 +0000

I had this problem for two of my projects. I was constantly nagging the people to give me some contents like text and images, and in one project, in both projects I had to wait a long time to get the text, and in oneI even had to find appropriate images myself. It took a lot of time and was a waste effort.

By: Franck

Franck — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 09:20:40 +0000

I do believe "Content extraction" is the main (and shall be the first) part of a Web project. If you want to really manage this content, you have to qualify and describe it. Then you can create the structures and the systems that will handle the information.To achieve that, you have to guess and anticipate on what the content the client brings.I often see websites becoming big mess after some updates because, one day, the client says "I would like to put an image galery here" or "We will put this file for download on this page" even if the system does not allow it.But it’s difficult to make managers and designers work this way.

By: Priscilla Speicher

Priscilla Speicher — Fri, 13 Jul 2007 16:10:40 +0000

As a professional copywriter for 18 years, I know whereof you speak. I believe very few people have writing ability. Therefore, if you expect clients to write copy, you’re giving them a laborious task that they are not good at. Rather, you should ask them for outlines - albeit well filled-in, comprehensive outlines - of content and recommend they work with a professional writer. Let the WRITER, not you, go back and forth with them and ask for what info is needed. A good writer can get a solid, quality paragraph of content out of a sentence or two - or statistic or two - from the client. My two cents. :)

By: pt

pt — Sat, 14 Jul 2007 08:04:05 +0000

Do it for them!I`m specializing in making websites for the hair and beauty market. To make the projects swift, I have also made "templates" for content they would generally need. I also write content on demand. Ever since I started out in the web industry I saw the need for delivering content to clients. For them the easy part is desiding design, the hard part is what content to deliver.If you dont write content yourself, get a freelancer to do so. Make more money, make the client more happy! PS: (I do not do my projects in english ;)

By: Zeb

Zeb — Sun, 15 Jul 2007 16:26:21 +0000

Rightly said…It’s rather a global problem…In India too, my clients are insincere towards their duties. They are unknown of the power of content it could make to their site…

By: Ryan

Ryan — Mon, 16 Jul 2007 16:00:33 +0000

I’ve been a website project manager for just about 10 years now, and the number one killer of any project schedule has always been client deliverables. And the worst one of those is site content. Right now I have a stack of sites that are all on hold waiting for content. For the clients who can afford it, I point them to one of our partners who is a marketer / copywriter. All of our clients are told from day 1 that their content is the one thing that will throw off the schedule. Rarely do they believe it until the due date comes up. Today, we build the site and site framework without the content and then send them their final bill. This way our receivables schedule is on track, and we fit in content integration during slack periods of the week.