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	<title>Comments on: SEO - Should search engines matter in your campaign?</title>
	<link>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/</link>
	<description>thoughts on &#124; comments about &#124; examples of  } web design trends.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 19:17:39 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.2</generator>

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		<title>By: Scott G</title>
		<link>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-44874</link>
		<author>Scott G</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 03:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-44874</guid>
					<description>Great article.

It's not a purely hypothetical world, just a harder one to implement. The reason SEO compromises usability and best practice development is because you can still achieve quick SEO wins without having to improve the latter.

Plus, SEO is derived from a marketing background, not a design/development one. This means it can step on a lot of toes to get what it wants, and does often.

But, I do believe the days of tweaking just for Google will not last forever. Usability *is* also SEO, and this must be constantly pushed until people realise that we need to optimise for *many* traffic streams, so comprimising usability and best practice development is actually hurting your SEO campaign long term.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not a purely hypothetical world, just a harder one to implement. The reason SEO compromises usability and best practice development is because you can still achieve quick SEO wins without having to improve the latter.</p>
<p>Plus, SEO is derived from a marketing background, not a design/development one. This means it can step on a lot of toes to get what it wants, and does often.</p>
<p>But, I do believe the days of tweaking just for Google will not last forever. Usability *is* also SEO, and this must be constantly pushed until people realise that we need to optimise for *many* traffic streams, so comprimising usability and best practice development is actually hurting your SEO campaign long term.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Goas</title>
		<link>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-44875</link>
		<author>Ted Goas</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 04:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-44875</guid>
					<description>If a website is usable on all platforms, people like it, visit it, spread the word, the site gains popularity and a good reputation. The site can develop great SEO scores naturally.

Also, using semantic markup in sites creates better search results. Creating a site (without google analytics, etc.) that works, with good content, good content vs. code ratio, that scores with a lot of search engines.

But you hit the nail on the head: serve useful and relevant results that the user is looking for.

Great topic!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If a website is usable on all platforms, people like it, visit it, spread the word, the site gains popularity and a good reputation. The site can develop great SEO scores naturally.</p>
<p>Also, using semantic markup in sites creates better search results. Creating a site (without google analytics, etc.) that works, with good content, good content vs. code ratio, that scores with a lot of search engines.</p>
<p>But you hit the nail on the head: serve useful and relevant results that the user is looking for.</p>
<p>Great topic!</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Davies</title>
		<link>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-44973</link>
		<author>Matt Davies</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 14:49:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-44973</guid>
					<description>It comes down to one key word (sorry couldn't refuse the pun!) - the keyword is "balance". I feel both sides go hand in hand and both need to be considered. You may sway one way or the other due to the client or the clients audience...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It comes down to one key word (sorry couldn&#8217;t refuse the pun!) - the keyword is &#8220;balance&#8221;. I feel both sides go hand in hand and both need to be considered. You may sway one way or the other due to the client or the clients audience&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Ferrer</title>
		<link>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-44982</link>
		<author>Rob Ferrer</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 15:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-44982</guid>
					<description>I've seen so many websites that have been over SEO'd which means they are next to useless to the end user (or at the very least horrible to look at and navigate).

If I come across a site like that when searching, I will more often than not go back to the results and chose a lower result.

When developing sites, I concentrate on standards and usability, whilst keeping in mind SEO when writing copy and headings.

A well structured site with correct use of h1 tags etc should get good search engine results without too much trouble.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve seen so many websites that have been over SEO&#8217;d which means they are next to useless to the end user (or at the very least horrible to look at and navigate).</p>
<p>If I come across a site like that when searching, I will more often than not go back to the results and chose a lower result.</p>
<p>When developing sites, I concentrate on standards and usability, whilst keeping in mind SEO when writing copy and headings.</p>
<p>A well structured site with correct use of h1 tags etc should get good search engine results without too much trouble.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Faulkner</title>
		<link>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-45012</link>
		<author>Andrew Faulkner</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2007 19:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-45012</guid>
					<description>Well, there's me thinking that I'd be labelled as a loon. Thanks for the positive feedback, chaps.

Has anyone used the theory of simply improving the usability of a site and nothing else? Did it improve traffic and positions in the SERPSs?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, there&#8217;s me thinking that I&#8217;d be labelled as a loon. Thanks for the positive feedback, chaps.</p>
<p>Has anyone used the theory of simply improving the usability of a site and nothing else? Did it improve traffic and positions in the SERPSs?</p>
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		<title>By: Links for May 10th</title>
		<link>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-45067</link>
		<author>Links for May 10th</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2007 00:30:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-45067</guid>
					<description>[...] &#194;&#187; SEO - Should search engines matter in your campaign? &#194;&#187; fadtastic - a mul...Why you should pursue usability before search engine optimization. I have to agree with what the author has to say here, I don&#8217;t think you build websites simply for search engines, you build them for end-users. So, only add SEOs if they either don&#8217;t affecseo webdesign usability [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] &Acirc;&raquo; SEO - Should search engines matter in your campaign? &Acirc;&raquo; fadtastic - a mul&#8230;Why you should pursue usability before search engine optimization. I have to agree with what the author has to say here, I don&#8217;t think you build websites simply for search engines, you build them for end-users. So, only add SEOs if they either don&#8217;t affecseo webdesign usability [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Tadeusz Szewczyk</title>
		<link>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-45958</link>
		<author>Tadeusz Szewczyk</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 14:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-45958</guid>
					<description>Thank you for describing how I work for my SEO clients! That's exactly what white hat SEO is about.
On the other hand I have to disagree with you on one point: You or especially Google can already measure the usability and user satisfaction of a site. It's simple, take a look in Google Analytics at the so called "bounce rate". If your site is crap or only a blog saying "gosomewhere else for info, click the link" the bounce rate will be high. Also you can check how many page views have been counted per user. One page per user can either mean s/hesucceeded very quickly or did not find what s/he wants. There are also other statistic that indirectly can tell you if the site is usable or not. For instance if the time spend on a page is very short, it means the user does not read it for whatever reasons...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for describing how I work for my SEO clients! That&#8217;s exactly what white hat SEO is about.<br />
On the other hand I have to disagree with you on one point: You or especially Google can already measure the usability and user satisfaction of a site. It&#8217;s simple, take a look in Google Analytics at the so called &#8220;bounce rate&#8221;. If your site is crap or only a blog saying &#8220;gosomewhere else for info, click the link&#8221; the bounce rate will be high. Also you can check how many page views have been counted per user. One page per user can either mean s/hesucceeded very quickly or did not find what s/he wants. There are also other statistic that indirectly can tell you if the site is usable or not. For instance if the time spend on a page is very short, it means the user does not read it for whatever reasons&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Faulkner</title>
		<link>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-45972</link>
		<author>Andrew Faulkner</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 17:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-45972</guid>
					<description>Tadeus,

I *sort of* agree that what the article describes is 'White-Hat SEO' but I do believe it is more than that. I view White-Hat SEO as SEO that isn't 'naughty.' The article describes a more user-based SEO campaign. I guess this depends on your definition of White-Hat SEO though.

As for the stats you mentioned: Do you think Google use these stats in their algorithm? Do you know of any posts on the subject? I'd love to read up on this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tadeus,</p>
<p>I *sort of* agree that what the article describes is &#8216;White-Hat SEO&#8217; but I do believe it is more than that. I view White-Hat SEO as SEO that isn&#8217;t &#8216;naughty.&#8217; The article describes a more user-based SEO campaign. I guess this depends on your definition of White-Hat SEO though.</p>
<p>As for the stats you mentioned: Do you think Google use these stats in their algorithm? Do you know of any posts on the subject? I&#8217;d love to read up on this.</p>
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		<title>By: Volkher Hofmann</title>
		<link>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-45978</link>
		<author>Volkher Hofmann</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2007 17:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-45978</guid>
					<description>OK, I'm about as far removed from any SEO theory, attempts at tailoring a site to the requirements of search engines etc. as could possibly be. I've never, ever wasted a thought on search engine ranking.

The other day I inspected my Mint stats and by clicking on the referrers I found out that, from my point of view, I have quite a bunch of Google.com top positions for some pretty average search terms (try "LP storage"). I then proceeded to do a one-day snapshot, collecting screenshots of every top-5 position I have on Google.com.

Lots.

So, what I'm trying to say is simply this: Don't try too hard. In my case, it just happened. I type away, people sometimes link to it or just read it and disappear into thin air and my Google SE rankings crawl up.

Accessibility sucks on my site, satisfaction might be a different matter.

Not that I care though.
Maybe that last statement is really what it boils down to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, I&#8217;m about as far removed from any SEO theory, attempts at tailoring a site to the requirements of search engines etc. as could possibly be. I&#8217;ve never, ever wasted a thought on search engine ranking.</p>
<p>The other day I inspected my Mint stats and by clicking on the referrers I found out that, from my point of view, I have quite a bunch of Google.com top positions for some pretty average search terms (try &#8220;LP storage&#8221;). I then proceeded to do a one-day snapshot, collecting screenshots of every top-5 position I have on Google.com.</p>
<p>Lots.</p>
<p>So, what I&#8217;m trying to say is simply this: Don&#8217;t try too hard. In my case, it just happened. I type away, people sometimes link to it or just read it and disappear into thin air and my Google SE rankings crawl up.</p>
<p>Accessibility sucks on my site, satisfaction might be a different matter.</p>
<p>Not that I care though.<br />
Maybe that last statement is really what it boils down to.</p>
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		<title>By: Tadeusz Szewczyk</title>
		<link>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-46164</link>
		<author>Tadeusz Szewczyk</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 08:33:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-46164</guid>
					<description>Well Andrew, I can't find tha article I read about that recently but it's already patented:
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&#38;Sect2=HITOFF&#38;u=/netahtml/PTO/search-adv.html&#38;r=1&#38;p=1&#38;f=G&#38;l=50&#38;d=PG01&#38;S1=20070088693&#38;OS=20070088693&#38;RS=20070088693

Link found here:
http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=74245</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Andrew, I can&#8217;t find tha article I read about that recently but it&#8217;s already patented:<br />
<a href="http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&amp;Sect2=HITOFF&amp;u=/netahtml/PTO/search-adv.html&amp;r=1&amp;p=1&amp;f=G&amp;l=50&amp;d=PG01&amp;S1=20070088693&amp;OS=20070088693&amp;RS=20070088693" rel="nofollow">http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&amp;Sect2=HITOFF&amp;u=/netahtml/PTO/search-adv.html&amp;r=1&amp;p=1&amp;f=G&amp;l=50&amp;d=PG01&amp;S1=20070088693&amp;OS=20070088693&amp;RS=20070088693</a></p>
<p>Link found here:<br />
<a href="http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=74245" rel="nofollow">http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=74245</a></p>
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		<title>By: Matt Davies</title>
		<link>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-46218</link>
		<author>Matt Davies</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 12:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-46218</guid>
					<description>"Not that I care though."

Why don't you care?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Not that I care though.&#8221;</p>
<p>Why don&#8217;t you care?</p>
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		<title>By: Volkher Hofmann</title>
		<link>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-46228</link>
		<author>Volkher Hofmann</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 14:02:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-46228</guid>
					<description>Matt,

I'm an amateur who just keeps a website as a hobby. I have invested some time into trying to make it somewhat accessible by getting rid of my former bloated table layout and perhaps my next version will be better in that department, but I'm doing this for the fun of it and am not investing more time than necessary. Life is more important than trying to iron out the latest browser incompatibilities, getting top search engine positions or keeping up with the latest developments altogether. If you (are trying to) make money off your site though or are more serious about things than I am, by all means, one should get/do things right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m an amateur who just keeps a website as a hobby. I have invested some time into trying to make it somewhat accessible by getting rid of my former bloated table layout and perhaps my next version will be better in that department, but I&#8217;m doing this for the fun of it and am not investing more time than necessary. Life is more important than trying to iron out the latest browser incompatibilities, getting top search engine positions or keeping up with the latest developments altogether. If you (are trying to) make money off your site though or are more serious about things than I am, by all means, one should get/do things right.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Faulkner</title>
		<link>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-46486</link>
		<author>Andrew Faulkner</author>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2007 11:51:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-46486</guid>
					<description>Tadeus, thanks for the links. I'll check them out.

Volkher, I think that putting effort into the usability has worked out for you. It's proof of the concept above, I guess. No real effort put into SEO but effort placed into usability can really boost the site in the SERPs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tadeus, thanks for the links. I&#8217;ll check them out.</p>
<p>Volkher, I think that putting effort into the usability has worked out for you. It&#8217;s proof of the concept above, I guess. No real effort put into SEO but effort placed into usability can really boost the site in the SERPs.</p>
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		<title>By: Manny Hernandez</title>
		<link>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-46883</link>
		<author>Manny Hernandez</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2007 17:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-46883</guid>
					<description>Andrew:
I get your point, however a site created with the user in mind, coupled with a solid link popularity, will do fine (in my experience) with Search Engine rankings. Over-SEO'd sites are simply not natural and therefore do not result in a user-friendly (usable) experience. So I do think that usability and SEO are not mutually exclusive.

As a matter of fact, I recall a Google Senior Engineering Manager (her name escapes me), at a Search Engines Strategies conference a couple of years ago, say that, for a given keyword, Google's algorithm will rank higher sites designed with people in mind (meaning, sites that are text-rich, relevant to keyword being searched, with just about enough content -not too much, not too little-, etc.)

My two cents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew:<br />
I get your point, however a site created with the user in mind, coupled with a solid link popularity, will do fine (in my experience) with Search Engine rankings. Over-SEO&#8217;d sites are simply not natural and therefore do not result in a user-friendly (usable) experience. So I do think that usability and SEO are not mutually exclusive.</p>
<p>As a matter of fact, I recall a Google Senior Engineering Manager (her name escapes me), at a Search Engines Strategies conference a couple of years ago, say that, for a given keyword, Google&#8217;s algorithm will rank higher sites designed with people in mind (meaning, sites that are text-rich, relevant to keyword being searched, with just about enough content -not too much, not too little-, etc.)</p>
<p>My two cents.</p>
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		<title>By: Søkemotoroptimalisering</title>
		<link>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-73745</link>
		<author>Søkemotoroptimalisering</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Aug 2007 21:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-73745</guid>
					<description>SEO should absolutely be included in EVERY Internet Marketing campains. Internet marketing without SEO is not marketing. &#160;I'm working with SEO/PPC every day and see this huge gains it makes to the website traffic.The Convertion rate is also higher than with many other Internet Marketing campaigns.&#160;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SEO should absolutely be included in EVERY Internet Marketing campains. Internet marketing without SEO is not marketing. &nbsp;I&#8217;m working with SEO/PPC every day and see this huge gains it makes to the website traffic.The Convertion rate is also higher than with many other Internet Marketing campaigns.&nbsp;</p>
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		<title>By: 25 шагов к совершенству Вашего сайта &#187; Журнал для веб-мастеров и блогеров от школы создания сайтов</title>
		<link>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-126020</link>
		<author>25 шагов к совершенству Вашего сайта &#187; Журнал для веб-мастеров и блогеров от школы создания сайтов</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Oct 2007 21:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://fadtastic.net/2007/05/09/seo-should-search-engines-matter-in-your-campaign/#comment-126020</guid>
					<description>[...] уже не «белой» оптимизацией, а «черной»… Поймите, что данный подход сделает сайт неприемлемым для посетител... и разрушит все, что было сделано в один миг. Забудьте о [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] уже не «белой» оптимизацией, а «черной»… Поймите, что данный подход сделает сайт неприемлемым для посетител&#8230; и разрушит все, что было сделано в один миг. Забудьте о [&#8230;]</p>
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