Comments on: Client Trouble (Or, Another Reason To Blame Microsoft) http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/ thoughts on | comments about | examples of } web design trends. Fri, 16 May 2008 19:14:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.2 By: Andrew Faulkner http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39093 Andrew Faulkner Thu, 12 Apr 2007 08:23:18 +0000 http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39093 Every designer will go through this - likely more than once too. I find the best solution is for the client to point out the problem they have with your work. Then you say that you'll find the solution. Doing it in this manner doesn't allow them to come out with outrageous solutions. I don't think it's entirely Microsoft's fault. It's often the lack of knowledge that the web should be used to its strengths - not to do all the crazy DTP stuff. I'd also like to agree that one can drop clients as a last resort. Don't be afraid to, but be sensible about it. Every designer will go through this - likely more than once too.

I find the best solution is for the client to point out the problem they have with your work. Then you say that you’ll find the solution. Doing it in this manner doesn’t allow them to come out with outrageous solutions.

I don’t think it’s entirely Microsoft’s fault. It’s often the lack of knowledge that the web should be used to its strengths - not to do all the crazy DTP stuff.

I’d also like to agree that one can drop clients as a last resort. Don’t be afraid to, but be sensible about it.

]]> By: Aaron http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39100 Aaron Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:47:35 +0000 http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39100 Yep - been there. Had a client recently where redesigning the website and talked them into having a new logo too. I drew up three conceptual logos which i presented to the client. Two of the ideas were in my oppinion excellent logos and would have given me lots of options for designing the website. The third logo, i confess, was making up the numbers and a little bit weak. Naturally they preferred the third one. I suppose it's my fault for presenting a weaker option, but I dont think this is uncommon? In hindsight I should have pitched the concepts better and SOLD the better ideas. We live and learn. Yep - been there.

Had a client recently where redesigning the website and talked them into having a new logo too. I drew up three conceptual logos which i presented to the client. Two of the ideas were in my oppinion excellent logos and would have given me lots of options for designing the website. The third logo, i confess, was making up the numbers and a little bit weak.

Naturally they preferred the third one. I suppose it’s my fault for presenting a weaker option, but I dont think this is uncommon? In hindsight I should have pitched the concepts better and SOLD the better ideas.

We live and learn.

]]> By: Ncus http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39109 Ncus Thu, 12 Apr 2007 09:56:55 +0000 http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39109 Usually i am dumping client if i am over busy. I always work on several projects, but sometimes i need to let go clients. Another reason is their budget is too low, i don't want to be underpaid (according to my standard). I think i communicate well with my clients, i always talk with my clients regarding my ideas before constructing any conceptual. Except for icon designs, i always start from sketch. My clients knows well about web technology, i think i am kinda doing well educating my client. But sometimes i found a cracker :D, like giving me a high resolution image to my small mailbox. God..i have to deleted the email, and ask for smaller image instead. I am agree with Adrew, there is no one to blame about WYSIWYG. Microsoft is not the one to blame about its office suit. Personally i dislike Dreamweaver or FrontPage :-D , with that tools even a 10 year old can all em a Web Designer. Usually i am dumping client if i am over busy. I always work on several projects, but sometimes i need to let go clients. Another reason is their budget is too low, i don’t want to be underpaid (according to my standard).

I think i communicate well with my clients, i always talk with my clients regarding my ideas before constructing any conceptual. Except for icon designs, i always start from sketch.

My clients knows well about web technology, i think i am kinda doing well educating my client. But sometimes i found a cracker :D, like giving me a high resolution image to my small mailbox. God..i have to deleted the email, and ask for smaller image instead.

I am agree with Adrew, there is no one to blame about WYSIWYG. Microsoft is not the one to blame about its office suit. Personally i dislike Dreamweaver or FrontPage :-D , with that tools even a 10 year old can all em a Web Designer.

]]> By: Chisa http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39111 Chisa Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:13:50 +0000 http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39111 I usually go with the educating approach - most clients will see the light if you give them some solid reasons for choosing to not go with their suggestions, particularly if the reasons somehow relate back to them making more money. When they don't listen I have trouble - I've never had the heart to dump them, especially as they have often been perfectly nice people who just happen to have a NO IDEA about design. I usually find some kind of alternative solution that satisfied both of us, or just do it anyway. Luckily no one has asked me to do anything too horrible so far... I'd like to blame MySpace just a little too - with the crazily crowded pages there I always get 'it's too booooring, put some more stuff in the space!' from people from that age group, although luckily they're friends and not clients! @Aaron: It's funny how they always go for the design you like the least huh? I've had that happen to me several times. These days I just pitch less designs rather than include one I'm not happy with. I usually go with the educating approach - most clients will see the light if you give them some solid reasons for choosing to not go with their suggestions, particularly if the reasons somehow relate back to them making more money.

When they don’t listen I have trouble - I’ve never had the heart to dump them, especially as they have often been perfectly nice people who just happen to have a NO IDEA about design. I usually find some kind of alternative solution that satisfied both of us, or just do it anyway. Luckily no one has asked me to do anything too horrible so far…

I’d like to blame MySpace just a little too - with the crazily crowded pages there I always get ‘it’s too booooring, put some more stuff in the space!’ from people from that age group, although luckily they’re friends and not clients!

@Aaron: It’s funny how they always go for the design you like the least huh? I’ve had that happen to me several times. These days I just pitch less designs rather than include one I’m not happy with.

]]> By: Abhijit Nadgouda http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39114 Abhijit Nadgouda Thu, 12 Apr 2007 10:25:15 +0000 http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39114 Well said. A lot of people try to impose their perception without worrying about the users. Usually the problem gets sorted out when they are explained the consequences. I think it is better if the designer makes sure before the engagement that he/she will have the authority for certain decisions since he/she has taken responsibility for the site. But it is quite true that a long term solution is to educate them. Well said. A lot of people try to impose their perception without worrying about the users. Usually the problem gets sorted out when they are explained the consequences. I think it is better if the designer makes sure before the engagement that he/she will have the authority for certain decisions since he/she has taken responsibility for the site. But it is quite true that a long term solution is to educate them.

]]> By: J Phill http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39126 J Phill Thu, 12 Apr 2007 12:01:34 +0000 http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39126 Trying to educate clients as much as possible at the start before contracts are even signed is the best line of defense I think. I'm working with a client now who wants so much stuff for her site off the bat, most of which was not wise. So I told her to back up, start small, and broke down why starting small would be more beneficial. I backed up all of my points with examples and she 100% agreed. Half the time, the clients don't even know what they want so they choose everything and expect the world in a website. Trying to educate clients as much as possible at the start before contracts are even signed is the best line of defense I think.

I’m working with a client now who wants so much stuff for her site off the bat, most of which was not wise. So I told her to back up, start small, and broke down why starting small would be more beneficial. I backed up all of my points with examples and she 100% agreed.

Half the time, the clients don’t even know what they want so they choose everything and expect the world in a website.

]]> By: M.J.A. http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39146 M.J.A. Thu, 12 Apr 2007 14:40:29 +0000 http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39146 The Lakers comment made me laugh pretty loud. That one actually happened to me. "I want a purple background, gold headings, green text and no rounded corners or that shadowing stuff." That client still can't figure out why no one uses her site. The Lakers comment made me laugh pretty loud. That one actually happened to me.

“I want a purple background, gold headings, green text and no rounded corners or that shadowing stuff.”

That client still can’t figure out why no one uses her site.

]]> By: Steve http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39150 Steve Thu, 12 Apr 2007 14:53:50 +0000 http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39150 As I understand it, every design decision has a reason behind it, so as designers, we should be able to explain the reasons for everything we do. Of course, some of our clients will not be reasonable. I try to establish working relationships with my clients in which they explain their problems to me, and allow me to provide the solutions. I try to shun clients who want to give me the solutions. As I understand it, every design decision has a reason behind it, so as designers, we should be able to explain the reasons for everything we do. Of course, some of our clients will not be reasonable.

I try to establish working relationships with my clients in which they explain their problems to me, and allow me to provide the solutions. I try to shun clients who want to give me the solutions.

]]> By: Andrew Faulkner http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39151 Andrew Faulkner Thu, 12 Apr 2007 14:57:07 +0000 http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39151 <blockquote>they explain their problems to me, and allow me to provide the solutions. I try to shun clients who want to give me the solutions.</blockquote> Spot on, mate. I concur.

they explain their problems to me, and allow me to provide the solutions. I try to shun clients who want to give me the solutions.

Spot on, mate. I concur.

]]> By: Matt Davies http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39152 Matt Davies Thu, 12 Apr 2007 14:57:40 +0000 http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39152 As Tony Bliar once said "education, education, education". I've been there with nearly all of those! I wish someone would educate Bill Gates! Nice post... As Tony Bliar once said “education, education, education”. I’ve been there with nearly all of those!

I wish someone would educate Bill Gates! Nice post…

]]> By: Christine http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39219 Christine Fri, 13 Apr 2007 00:01:53 +0000 http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39219 I've been through all of these situations. Fortunately less and less with the years. I think that I've learned how to sniff out the bad clients now. However one thing that still gets me is the scope creep. Once I get a deposit and start working, then all of a sudden flash would be nice, how about a contact form or perhaps you could build something that allows me to maintain it? I would like to know if a builder, once halfway finished the construction of a house would all of sudden add a basement? I’ve been through all of these situations. Fortunately less and less with the years. I think that I’ve learned how to sniff out the bad clients now.
However one thing that still gets me is the scope creep. Once I get a deposit and start working, then all of a sudden flash would be nice, how about a contact form or perhaps you could build something that allows me to maintain it? I would like to know if a builder, once halfway finished the construction of a house would all of sudden add a basement?

]]> By: holotone.net http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39226 holotone.net Fri, 13 Apr 2007 00:43:00 +0000 http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39226 [...] » Client Trouble (Or, Another Reason To Blame Microsoft) » fadtastic - a multi-author web design t... - There’s no denying the fact that there’s a lot of design-challenged clients out there. They’re everywhere, in fact. [...] […] » Client Trouble (Or, Another Reason To Blame Microsoft) » fadtastic - a multi-author web design t… - There’s no denying the fact that there’s a lot of design-challenged clients out there. They’re everywhere, in fact. […]

]]> By: Ezekiel Bruni http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39332 Ezekiel Bruni Fri, 13 Apr 2007 14:42:05 +0000 http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-39332 Whaddaya know? The solutions are all <a href="http://freelanceswitch.com/clients/12-breeds-of-client-and-how-to-work-with-them/" rel="nofollow">here.</a> Whaddaya know? The solutions are all here.

]]> By: stu http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-40010 stu Tue, 17 Apr 2007 12:17:21 +0000 http://fadtastic.net/2007/04/12/client-trouble-or-another-reason-to-blame-microsoft/#comment-40010 You say education, and yes, explaining a design decision does work most of the time, but this takes time..make sure you're billing them for that, something I'm not sure I always do, but it's my own fault.. If a client is being awkward or demanding I normally say, 'you are paying me to design, let me design' if they don't agree to this then it's a fundamental problem in the working relationship.. tell them that. and I wouldn't say blame microsoft, it's just people.. can't live with em, can't kill em.. You say education, and yes, explaining a design decision does work most of the time, but this takes time..make sure you’re billing them for that, something I’m not sure I always do, but it’s my own fault..

If a client is being awkward or demanding I normally say, ‘you are paying me to design, let me design’ if they don’t agree to this then it’s a fundamental problem in the working relationship.. tell them that.

and I wouldn’t say blame microsoft, it’s just people.. can’t live with em, can’t kill em..

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